hehheh

I upended some hand-written paper-on-sticks diet scam sign in the corner of a field. Turned out to belong to a nearby house and the guy followed me and confronted me. First he wanted me to put the sign back up. I offered to repair it for him, but no, then he wanted me to come to his house and make a new sign. Or he'd call the police. I took the only safe option - I dropped the sign and left. He can call the police; whatever.

Caller ID says the State Police called an hour later. I wasn't sure if they'd even bother. Maybe I'll have to pay .50 restitution

Should I call back the police and see what's up, or wait for them to do something official.

Let the police call back if they are so inclined. It seem unlikely that it will be pursued beyond a phone call.

Newbie

Newbie (not)

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I'd want to check the city laws and see what the setback is for signage, and check to see if his sign was legal. Then we've got the matter of what he was advertising. If it's the typical diet scam we've been seeing, it's Multi-Level Marketing, a ponzi scheme, illegal crap. Once again, it's a case of a crack dealer whining because he's being busted unfairly....

LAST EDITED ON 09-12-00 AT 08:24 PM (CST)

If they call, tell them that you are a citizen performing trash removal duty. Refer them to this web site.

I have been confronted many times while removing contractor signs from people's front yards (Pools, Roofers, etc). I just tell them that I am bringing them to code enforcement and if they have a problem with it to meet me at city hall in the morning. So far, nobody has shown up.

Whatever city this happened in, check the local ordinance regarding signage. You will probably find that you are well within your rights. Spam is spam is spam.

HammerHead
hammerhead@causs.org

LAST EDITED ON 09-16-00 AT 08:47 PM (CST)

The State Police called again the next morning when I wasn't home. But it's been almost a week since then. You guys were right

I got mailed a @*!# summons - criminal mischief, property damage: $180 fine. This guy must take his homemade scam sign really seriously. No mention of restitution -- that would have been funny.

A lawyer would probably know what to do, but I might have to be cheap and plead guilty. I sure don't want to plead not-guilty and then stand in front of the magistrate and this weirdo and be found guilty anyway.

I'll see if I can find out the laws and ordinances regarding the sign.

Couple of questions. How did they determine a $180 fine for criminal mischief if you've not made a plea? Second, just how many witnesses observed you do this? Third, if it's in public right of way, it's covered under Federal Law enacted in 1969 (Lady Bird Johnson's doings)pertaining to Natonal Beautification Act, or something of like nature.

I believe I'd spring for an attorney, get his advise and counter sue for attorneys fee's and court cost, loss of time plus wages and let the joker know your going for the juglar.Keep us informed. Yo may want to contact the American Civil Liberties Union. Good luck.

GW

GW

The alleged sign and property owner must have seen me from his house, maybe 300-500 feet away. A state trooper took his complaint. Summary offense, pay the fine ($100 + costs) and done, or plead not guilty and go before the judge. Sign may not have been within the r.o.w., it was a good 8-12 feet away from the road edge. I think the only chance I have is if it happens to be against that Twp sign ordinance. I'll check on that.

>The alleged sign and property owner must have seen me from
>his house, maybe 300-500 feet away.
>I think the only chance I have is if it happens
>to be against that Twp sign ordinance. I'll check on that.

Doc:

I still say that 8 to 12 feet from the road edge is in r.o.w. R.o.w.'s are normally 100' wide for a standard two lane road and in some cases 150' wide. A good rule of thumb to follow, any thing between the light poles or power line poles which line the road way. That's the case in most all states. Unless you crossed a fence, I can't see how they can say you were on private property. It still goes back to the "Lady Bird Johnson" beautification act and no township or state law can over ride those statutes. I believe I would tell the trouper you were on public r.o.w., unless of course you were on a back road and even then the r.o.w.'s are defined. Personally I would be hard pressed to just give in, unless you definately determine you were on private property.

Just my 2cts worth.

GW

GW

How are things progressing with your fugitive from justice situation?

GW

GW

Update

Speaking with that township CE, he says such homemade signs are tolerated for a few days, but after that the owner is notified by mail to remove the sign. I had seen that sign about a month earlier, so I know it was up at least that long. So I know the sign is against the rules, R.O.W. distance doesn't matter.

Also, the house is not even visible from where the sign was, so the sign being on his property is not obvious.

My local CE has told me that they collect signs and notify the owner by the phone number on the sign (which is always an answering machine) to come get their sign from the CE office. I doubt many of them do.

I mailed in a plea of Not Guilty. I expect to be scheduled to appear before the District Justice. Those 3 things above are my defense.

I checked today and no sign was there, whatever that means.

Good Luck Dr. Neuro
I am praying everything turns out in your favor!

I had the hearing today in front of the judge. I lost. Then to add insult to injury, he added $25 restitution.

I hated the trial, it was one of the most difficult things I've ever had to do. It would have been infinitely easier to have pled guilty. I feel I have let down the cause by losing this case. Well, at least I stood up for what was right. But it's not worth fighting further.

I was alone and I didn't do a very good job representing myself. I had gathered evidence; taken pictures; but ended up not using any of it. The state police officer acted as the prosecution, with three people as witnesses. It was a very small court room, with no seats for public attendence.

The judge was not personally offended by street spam, in fact he thought it was their right to post it. Obviously he had no clue. Also working against me was the fact that I live two counties away from where the sign was - the judge didn't like me, um, disrupting their small farming community. I don't know if an attorney could have helped me.

I mentioned CAUSS, but not the web site.

The sign owner said she was selling Herbalife for supplemental income. (There's that Herbalife again; I'm getting more convinced that they really are behind most street spam.) She said Herbalife had recommended putting signs up for advertising.

I noticed a large coroplast sign up on a pole right at the intersection of the magistrate court building, with fire and police. I guess they pay no attention to spam or scams there.

The lessons learned: stay away from Lebanon County PA, they can eat their spam. If the sign might have been put up by the property owner, leave it. (Or maybe sneak it out, like a thief in the night ). Plead guilty if charged.

Anyway, due to a different circumstance, I can't be very active against street spam for a while. But you can bet I'll be back. Just not in Lebanon County.

dr Neuro

>
>Anyway, due to a different circumstance, I can't be very active
>against street spam for a while. But you can bet I'll be back.
>Just not in Lebanon County.

>dr Neuro

Sorry to hear about the outcome. Can't say that things would be any different in a rural comunity here in Texas any more than in Lebanon County PA. The only difference here in Texas is, we have known state laws, backed up by county and city ordinances which are straight forward.
I firmly believe I would do the same as you. However, I think I would solicit the assistance of a good friend of mine who is a law professor at a local university.
I may be hard headed, but I think I would die and go to hell, before I would plead guilty even though the cards are definitely stacked in a rural "kangaroo" court.

Can't say that I blame you for laying low for a while, may be the best thing until you can recruit some added sharks.

Good luck, keep us informed.

GreatWhite-BH

GW

Sorry on the results of your trial. You should have hired an attorney. Have you gone to one for a free consultation? It would be good the get the adivce and see where you stand. You won't have to pay a fee unless you decide to hire him/her. A judge will rarely side with you without an attorney, and as you learned, he won't even listen to you unless you know the ins and outs of the system. On the flip side, your attorney can easily make a clown out of any "prosecuting" police officer.

What about writing a letter to the editor of the local newspaper where the incident happened? I would complain about the apathetic government allowing litter to pile up and those few "bad apple" residents there ripping off people, lowering everyone's standard of living, and destroying any tourism appeal. You could underscore it with a photo of that spam next to the courthouse.

Finally, you could attack the prosecuting spammer from every other legal angle possible. Report them to the state DOT for right of way violations, to the better business bureau, the local chamber of commerce, the county attorney, post office mail fraud division (if relevant), and so on.

- burbinator

One more thing, and this is really important. You don't want convictions on your record. You really ought to appeal and get this overturned somehow. Even if things don't bode well for your side, your attorney could work out a deal where you perhaps pay some restitution and have some sort of probationary period without any bad marks going on your record.

- burbinator

Im disturbed by the ignorance of this judge, and of the trooper. This is clearly a case of being penalized for removing trash. Im unfamiliar with the laws there in PA, but I will tell you this, if this was me, here in Texas I would excercise my right to an appeal. Here, you have ten days to appeal and you simply put up a small bond. You can request it go to a higher court, usually County or State level, and present your case as though the previous court did not give you a fair hearing. I have done this, and have prevailed.

I urge you to look into this option. Also, I would advise contacting all the local papers. They love this kind of stuff.

Let me know if I can help.

HammerHead
hammerhead@causs.org