Home                       Citizens Against Ugly Street Spam     

Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Top General General topic #3446
View in linear mode

Subject: "Roadside Crosses" Previous topic | Next topic
InkyThu Jul-14-05 01:02 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
1 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
"Roadside Crosses"


          

Roadside crosses are usually put up because somebody died there due to a drunk driver accident. Sometimes the crosses are decorated with all sorts of stuff like artificial flowers, teddy bears, etc. and mini-shrines. These are put up without permission on public road r-o-w's. They belong in a cemetary not on a roadside. They're morbid. They're distracting to drivers. They're ugly. I've removed quite a lot of them right along with all the other bandit signs. Truly, you can't say these should be let alone.

Take a look.

Comments?

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 14th 2005
1
RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 14th 2005
2
RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 14th 2005
3
RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 14th 2005
4
RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 15th 2005
5
RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 15th 2005
6
RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 15th 2005
7
RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 15th 2005
8
      RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 15th 2005
9
           RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 15th 2005
11
                RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 16th 2005
13
RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 15th 2005
10
RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 16th 2005
12
RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 16th 2005
14
Colorado supreme court ruling on roadside crosses - ven...
Jul 16th 2005
15
RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 20th 2005
16
RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 21st 2005
17
RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 21st 2005
18
      RE: Roadside Crosses
Jul 22nd 2005
19
RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 04th 2005
20
RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 05th 2005
21
RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 05th 2005
22
RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 06th 2005
23
RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 15th 2005
24
RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 16th 2005
25
      RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 16th 2005
26
           RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 16th 2005
28
           RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 17th 2005
30
           RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 17th 2005
29
RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 16th 2005
27
RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 17th 2005
32
RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 17th 2005
31
RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 17th 2005
33
RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 24th 2005
34
RE: Roadside Crosses
Aug 25th 2005
35
      RE: Roadside Crosses
Sep 21st 2005
36
RE: Roadside Crosses & State Sponsored Memorial Signs
Jun 30th 2008
37

clipperThu Jul-14-05 01:59 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
114 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#1. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I haven't removed any of those yet. But I understand. My favorite by far item to remove are the "We buy houses", "Rent to own", and the other less scrupulous "businesses". I also usually leave the garage sales and lost cats alone too. The "We buy houses" people are enough to keep me busy.

I remember reading something a while ago about venerated objects (those crosses) being considered trash by the court. I think it was published in the causs forum someplace. Does anyone know where the link is?

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
clipperThu Jul-14-05 02:11 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
114 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#2. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 1


          

Ok, here is the link: venerated object


  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

NewbieThu Jul-14-05 03:51 PM
Charter member
1610 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#3. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This topic has come up before but I never realized the extent of these roadside memorials.

There is even a just completed drama/sci-fi major movie starring Gary Busey called "Descansos." It has the description as follows:

"A man compelled to rid the world of roadside memorials must face his darkest secret when he meets a mysterious woman determined to preserve one."

You can see the trailer at
http://www.cmrstudios.com/Descansos/Equinox_Trailer.htm

The female lead, Christina Carson, takes the following position. "She understands opinions on both sides of the issue regarding roadside memorials, and believes that standardized federal legislation should be considered as a way of protecting the rights of grieving victims, while at the same time giving consideration to the passersby."

A story related to the film and the state of Florida which maintains 400 roadside memorials is at
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041130/NEWS/411300394/1004

The folks who did the film apparently started with a plan to do a documentary but is is not clear if this was completed or just morphed into the drama. They also have a web site dedicated to the issue of roadside memorials:
http://roadsidetributes.org
It has some interestings facts.

Here is a mild rant on the issue:
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/pile/200111.html

I guess there is no shortage of opinion.

Newbie (not)

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

NoSpamThu Jul-14-05 11:00 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
139 posts
Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#4. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I don't take them down.

In fact, I make a special point of keeping the spam signs cleaned away from them.

It is a matter of respect for the grieving families who put these memorials up at the locations where they lost their loved ones.

Think about it. Somebody loved the person who lost their life at that very spot. How can you disrespect and/or desecrate that?

Best regards,
NoSpam

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ncsharkFri Jul-15-05 05:05 AM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
97 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#5. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Technically, these roadside memorials are foreign objects that are every bit as illegal as any other piece of street spam.

At the same time, we have to remember why these were put there- that there are family members and friends who are grieving over their loss.

I don't have a problem with them being up for some reasonable amount of time, but I don't think it should become a permanent memorial. At some point, if for no other reason than ROW maintenance, it needs to come down. Otherwise, our roadways will look like cemetaries over time.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Tomato StakeFri Jul-15-05 05:37 AM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
621 posts
Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#6. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

These are illegal in Georgia and are usually removed after a while by the road crews. The mowers plow right through them and the families often are tenacious about replacing them. Personally, they are morbid and distracting. Some, when made out of solid items like concrete and wood are actually dangerous to traffic should another accidient occur, as is one case right near me. The corner is so bad that at the slightest frost or snow, cars go plowing through the same place on Chastain Road and take out the tree they keep replanting and the cross placed thereupon. It's not a good corner design.

I'd remove any as litter if there were any on my "beat".



.

Oh, there's a hint of cool in the air, and Winter is coming! I've got to gather more firewood... And Sign stakes make great fire starters!

Ack! Bandit Signs are LITTER!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

whoppersFri Jul-15-05 06:27 AM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
131 posts
Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#7. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This subject is as touchy as political signs. Illegal or not, I leave em alone.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
dogglovrrFri Jul-15-05 09:08 AM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
311 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#8. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 7


          

I leave them alone, too.

Roadside memorials/crosses are not advertising illegal scams and they aren't put up on every corner and in rights-of-way.

Now...if I see a coroplast sign advertising "Finally! Affordable Roadside Memorials"....

"It's 10 p.m. Do you know what Dumpster your street spam is sleeping in?"

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
XtrasmartFri Jul-15-05 08:16 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
56 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#9. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 8


          

Lets allow them to bury the dead in the medians too. Heck, cheaper than going to the expense of buying a cemetery plot.

Public land for their remains, why not?

The same reason that makes bandit signs dangerous applies to these "memorials".

Just my opinion for what little it's worth.....

Put a cross up in my neighborhood on the ROW, public land and I'll take it down as fast as the signs.


  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
NoSpamFri Jul-15-05 10:49 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
139 posts
Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#11. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 9


          

>
>Put a cross up in my neighborhood on the ROW, public land
>and I'll take it down as fast as the signs.

Talk about a Public Relations (P.R.) nightmare. Imagine your photo in the paper removing the cross from the site of a fatal car wreck...

Do you think that you will win the public over to helping remove illegal street spam signs by doing this? I don't.

Most people out there would agree with removing illegal signs. I don't think that you will get public support for removing memorial crosses.

Best regards,
NoSpam

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Tomato StakeSat Jul-16-05 06:30 AM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
621 posts
Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#13. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 11


          

They do it all the time here. Most people do want to see them gone. Nody, except the moribund family, wishes to se a constant reminder of a tregedy.

I'll still remove them. Besides, the mowers get them long before I will.



.

Oh, there's a hint of cool in the air, and Winter is coming! I've got to gather more firewood... And Sign stakes make great fire starters!

Ack! Bandit Signs are LITTER!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Midtown30309Fri Jul-15-05 10:18 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
52 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#10. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I have never encountered one on my beat. I would likely leave it alone.

I see them all the time on the road but they don't seem to become all that widespread - between the Florida and Atlanta I noticed maybe 3 in total in a span of 300 miles - not a big deal as far as volume goes.

They should serve as a reminder to pay attention to your driving...

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
WolfrunSat Jul-16-05 04:09 AM
Member since Jan 06th 2006
116 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#12. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 10


          

We just leave them alone. I have found that they only last untill the mowers come through. Some times they will make two or three mowings but then they do not get put back. In Florida that approach works fine. The grass grows all year. I can see where that might be a problem is some parts of the country. Do the return after snow removal?

"If your not living on the edge you are taking up to much space" unknown

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

DenverSharkSat Jul-16-05 07:15 PM
Charter member
1975 posts
Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#14. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I've removed a bunch of these eyesores. I respect the feelings of those who lost loved ones, but it is inappropriate and illegal for them to litter the roadways with religious icons and plastic plants.

In Colorado, it is legal to remove this junk - the Supreme Court said so.

DenverShark

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
DenverSharkSat Jul-16-05 07:17 PM
Charter member
1975 posts
Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#15. "Colorado supreme court ruling on roadside crosses - venerate"
In response to Reply # 14


          

http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/2001/junejuly01/colorado.html

Freethought Today, June/July 2001

Colorado Court Rules Roadside Cross "Litter," Not "Venerated Object"
Introduction

On April 7, 2001, Rodney L. Scott, a resident of Byers, Colorado, which is east of Denver, was tried in a criminal case for "desecrating an object venerated by the public." The facts alleged in the case were that Scott illegally removed a roadside memorial, complete with Christian cross, from the median strip of an interstate highway. Roadside memorials, commemorating the death of a loved one, have become increasingly popular.

Robert Tiernan, who has handled several cases for the Foundation over the years, represented Mr. Scott free of charge. At the end of the prosecution's case, he moved for dismissal. The judge granted the motion and issued the (excerpted) opinion set forth below. The opinion is important because most if not all of the states have similar traffic laws and regulations dealing with littering, unauthorized advertising, and adverse possession.
* * *
County court, County of Adams, State of Colorado Criminal Action No. 00- M-2096.
The people of the State of Colorado, Plaintiff, v. Rodney Lyle Scott, Defendant.

The hearing in this matter commenced on the 5th day of April, 2001, before the Honorable Jeffrey L. Romeo, Judge of the County Court, Division VI.

THE COURT: In regard to the issue of desecration, if Mr. Scott had gone to a graveyard and removed a headstone and taken it to the dump, I think clearly the jury could infer . . . that that was in fact desecration, even though it was not otherwise written upon, damaged, or whatever.

The real concern of the Court in this particular matter is whether or not the Court can find as a legal matter this is a "venerated object." Venerated object is not defined in the statute. . . .
In this particular matter, People's Exhibit One shows the memorial that was created, a three-foot high cross put in the ground, using metal rod and two-by-fours . . . a pretty substantial piece of cross.

Now, I know some of the testimony said they don't think that it necessarily meant a religious cross. Maybe it did and maybe it didn't. Passersby may or may not infer that, although it's a pretty common assumption seeing a cross with flowers and someone's name written on it, one might consider that to be a cross or religious symbol. The question here, though, is whether or not this was something that legally can in fact be considered a venerated object.
As the District Attorney has noted in its brief, there is no statute authorizing these memorials. Now, the District Attorney goes on, expressing that there is nothing prohibiting these memorials. The Court finds differently.

In regard to the facts, this memorial was put up by family members, the stepfather and some friends . . . on a public right-of-way, at Colfax and I-70. There's no dispute about that. This is a piece of public ground; it is not private; there was no authorization to do that. And, as Mr. Hopkins states, virtually quote, they "cannot give permission to put memorials on state property." They have no authority to do that. It's state property. . . . Once it's put up, technically it is abandoned property. It is abandoned as a matter of law.

There is no doubt that these are placed there very lovingly, that it gives great comfort apparently to the people that have put them up. But this is a legal issue. This is not an emotional issue. And the fact of the matter is, technically, legally, that's abandoned property, and it doesn't matter whether it's a cross, a piece of wood . . . could be a bar of gold . . . it has nothing to do with the intrinsic value of it; in other words, whether it has any monetary value, or personal value. . . .

Secondly, as I said, this is done on a public roadway. It is done without authorization. . . . The State Legislature has in fact been approached to approve these, and they've rejected that.
There's another question. Are there other public policy issues which either support or countermand or contradict the idea that these can be venerated objects? I think there are. One, as I said, the Legislature's refusal to enact legislation when asked to protect these. That militates against any protection for these. Two, adverse possession. In this particular case, if I were to accept the District Attorney's theory as proposed in its memorandum, essentially it would allow people to adversely possess land against the people of the State of Colorado.

Many times people are confused, lay people especially, saying, well, it's public property, and I can do what I want with it. But, everyone knows you really can't do that. You can't go to a public park and erect a structure; you can't say, it is now mine. Mr. Breden testified it was his opinion that it's "his spot forever." Well, that evinces an intent to keep this up for as long as he's alive; that was his statement. The fact of the matter is, that constitutes adverse possession against the people of the State of Colorado.

Next, in regard to advertising devices, such markers put up by private citizens along state highways in our right-of-way . . . are illegal, and now they're saying the maintenance crews must remove them. Under *43-1-421, no person other than the Department of Transportation . . . may without written approval of the Department erect or maintain any "advertising device." Now, here's the sticking point that I'm sure may confuse especially lay people, but not the attorneys. "Advertising device" under the statute does not mean what you may think it means.

"Advertising device" you may think means billboards . . . the old Burma Shave signs, those sorts of things. This Colorado Supreme Court decided in the case of George W. Pigg v. Department of Highways, 746 P. 2nd, 961 (1987), this statute applies to noncommercial speech, and said:

"Non-commercial signs pose a threat to the goals underlying this act, as much as commercial signs. The act is designed for further protection of the public investment in the highway system, promotion of safety on the highway system, recreation of public travel, promotion of public pride, spirit of both state and local basis, preservation of the enhancement and natural beauty of this state, and the economic well being by attracting other travelers to this state."
And they go on to say, "It's self-evident that the advertising device detracts from the natural scenic beauty visible from the highway, whether it bears a commercial message or a non-commercial message.

Also--to the extent the State is concerned about the safety of travelers when drivers are distracted by reading signs--the concern does not depend on the nature of the message being communicated."
And, I find in this particular matter, these roadside memorials clearly send a message. That's what it was intended to do, and in fact, the testimony of Ms. Breden makes that clear. She said, what was the purpose? The purpose was to acknowledge the loss of her son . . . a valid purpose . . . unfortunately in the wrong place, on a state highway . . . and to slow people down.

Further, an additional statute the Court needs to consider is *42-4-1406, Foreign Matter on Highway Prohibited. That statute says, "No person shall throw" or, in this case, "deposit" (and the Court finds erecting this cross and all these other objects is depositing upon a highway), "any glass, bottles, stones, nails, tacks, wires, or other substance likely to injure any person, animal, or vehicle, upon a highway."

In this particular case, I find that three-foot-tall two-by-four cross does in fact have the likelihood to injure persons, animals, or vehicles on the highway.

So, I find that in fact that does violate that statute, and any person who violates that statute commits a Class B traffic infraction. That's a criminal statute--albeit, a small traffic infraction . . . .
Finally, another statute that needs to be considered is *18-4-511, Littering of Public or Private Property.

It says, "Any person who deposits, throws, or leaves any litter on a public or private property or waterways, commits littering." Littering is a Class 2 petty offense, punishable by a mandatory fine and could be up to a thousand dollars on a second conviction.

Litter has a legal definition, and the Court is bound by the legal definition, not what someone may think is used in Webster's dictionary or might be used in common conversation. It does in fact constitute litter upon the highway. It's a Class 2 petty offense to do that.
The Court finds that here we have abandoned property on a public roadway, not placed there with authorization, in contravention of at least four public policies, and the Legislature has refused in fact to protect these roadside memorials. To allow them would be to allow people to adversely possess land against the state. They constitute an advertising device in violation of that statute. This particular one constitutes a danger, a hazardous substance being placed there, and constitutes litter, two of those being criminal statutes.

It would be a legal and logical absurdity to say that this is litter on one hand but must be venerated in the very next second. It's a legal impossibility, a logical impossibility. And the Court has to try and construe these statutes together so that they make sense. And the only way they make sense is that these roadside memorials are not venerated objects as a matter of law; that they violate these other statutes; and by violating these other statutes, they lose any ability to be protected under *18-9-113.

Therefore, the Court finds as a matter of law, this roadside memorial is not a venerated object. Therefore, the Court must grant judgment of acquittal.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

BeastieWed Jul-20-05 07:25 PM
Member since Jan 06th 2006
140 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#16. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

My opinion? They have to go.

I've removed a few (won't say where) but rest assured that they had long since been ignored. I can't remember where I read it, but some states will let the memorials remain for a while (a year, maybe?) as long as they're being maintained.

I operate on the principal that the memorials are ill-conceived and only benefit the family of the victim(s). I've never looked at a roadside memorial more than once and thought that anyone else would care as much or more than they did. Once you notice it the second time, it's relevance to you diminishes.

That said, I would think that most enforcement agencies (big group there) would probably shy away from the issue so as not to seem insensitive. Anyone watching me remove one may well think that it's my job, or I'm related to the victim(s). And that's exactly what I want them to think.

If the family cares enough to put the memorial back up, then I would think it would be wise to give it a wide berth for a while. Tragedy aside, these still have no place on public land.


=======================
Beastie

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

GreatWhite-BHThu Jul-21-05 07:28 AM
Charter member
2670 posts
Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#17. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This custom was brought into the US by a certain ethnic group sometime around the late 70's or early 80's.
Up until that time you hardly ever saw a "venerated" oject in the ROW's.

The custom expanded when MADD approached the various state legislatures. They requested that venerated objects be allowed to stand for "xx" number of days after someone was killed in an auto accident by a drunken driver.

In theory and in TX, the TxDOT supposedly allows for the venerated objects to stand for 30 days. This has caused the cities to basically turn their heads when one happens to be placed at a busy intersecton in town.

There is one not too far from my house that's been up over five years and a new set of artifical flowers are placed about every six months. CE indicated they were told to "leave it alone".

In all due respect to all of our memmber sharks, CAUSS can't be all things to all people. Regardless of which position one takes, Venerated objects are not in the Scope of CAUSS and we strongly recomomned you take this issue up with your local city council or town supervisors.

GW

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
DenverSharkThu Jul-21-05 08:42 PM
Charter member
1975 posts
Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#18. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 17


          


GreatWhite wrote:

>In all due respect to all of our memmber sharks, CAUSS can't
>be all things to all people. Regardless of which position
>one takes, Venerated objects are not in the Scope of CAUSS
>and we strongly recomomned you take this issue up with your
>local city council or town supervisors.

GW:

I respect your opinion. However, my understanding of the Colorado Supreme Court case is that these items are indeed not venerated objects.

Still, I understand that CAUSS may not want to take a position on these items.

DenverShark

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
GreatWhite-BHFri Jul-22-05 06:01 AM
Charter member
2670 posts
Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#19. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 18


          

>I respect your opinion. However, my understanding of the
>Colorado Supreme Court case is that these items are indeed
>not venerated objects.

>DenverShark

Yes, and that was my take on the ruling. May I clarify which should have been done in the first place.

In our local suburb of Dallas, numerous "wooden" type crosses have been replaced with actual concrete type venerated objects with the deceased person's name clealy inscribed in a professional manner.

There was one such temporary cross with flowers placed in a very busy railroad right of way crossing near a school. When a permanent type cross replaced the original, it suddenly dispappeared but reappeared sometime later as the original.

There are "NO Trespassing" signs all over the RR ROW property and it's my guess the ROW crews removed the permanent type cross due to it's very close proximity to the tracks.

The temporary type crosses have a tendency to weather and disappear with time. When they are replaced with more rigid and professionally made crosses, those tend to be there forever.

Most of us are aware of the difference between a legal definition and a Webster definition and this is where the rub comes with reluctant enforcement.

These are the specifics of which I referred. Sorry for the confusion.

GW

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

bigorangeThu Aug-04-05 10:00 AM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
10 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#20. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's funny we were discussing it last night. Last night my son asked if someone was buried there, and I told him no.

So whoever said it was morbid is right.

You know what else is funny, lots of people who put up those crosses haven't stepped foot in a church since they were a teenager. They don't want anything to do with God while they are here, but want to spend eternity worshiping him after they kick the bucket? Go figure.


  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ForgettaboutitFri Aug-05-05 07:13 AM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
18 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#21. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Just reading this thread, I have concluded what type of people
are here, and all of my assumptions were right. You are a bunch of vigilantes. You are a bunch of bittermen. You have NO right to take these down. WHO ARE THAY SCAMMING? You all have found a cause. I was begining to be swayed toward your side, but after reading this entire thread, and your selfrightous attitudes, most of you you are a bunch of jerks.

Now in conclusion, my last post was deleted without any warning, I guess I touched a nerve and you cant deal with it. I tell you what, I will spread the word about causs, Lost cause that is, and direct people right to this thread.

Now you will go away in denial after reading this post and conclude that I am a sign spammer, I am not,
But most of you all are a bunch of delusional, vigilante, old bittermen. How can anyone conclude otherwise.

My last post was looking for anyone, just anyone here who doesn't think that removong these crosses by vivilantes is absurd. It was deleted without warning.

If you delete this one I will be back.... otherwise this is my last post here, just argueing and being involved with most of you all is too icky. Its not conducive to a happy spiritual well being.



>Roadside crosses are usually put up because somebody died
>there due to a drunk driver accident. Sometimes the crosses
>are decorated with all sorts of stuff like artificial
>flowers, teddy bears, etc. and mini-shrines. These are put
>up without permission on public road r-o-w's. They belong
>in a cemetary not on a roadside. They're morbid. They're
>distracting to drivers. They're ugly. I've removed quite a
>lot of them right along with all the other bandit signs.
>Truly, you can't say these should be let alone.
>
>Take a
>look.
>
>Comments?

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
WolfrunFri Aug-05-05 08:18 AM
Member since Jan 06th 2006
116 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#22. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 21


          

If you read the whole thread you would find several posters that do not remove them. I for one leave them alone. They only serve the perpose as a reminder to those in the area that something tragic happend at that spot. They go away on their own when the person who placed the monument has had time to morn and quits returning to the site. They are usually removed when the roadways are mowed.

"If your not living on the edge you are taking up to much space" unknown

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Tomato StakeSat Aug-06-05 07:19 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
621 posts
Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#23. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 21


          

C U

They are trash, just like every other item abandoned in the ROW... GONE!



.

Oh, there's a hint of cool in the air, and Winter is coming! I've got to gather more firewood... And Sign stakes make great fire starters!

Ack! Bandit Signs are LITTER!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

2900GladeMon Aug-15-05 06:33 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
14 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#24. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I have to admit guys. I came to this site after reading the story in the Katy paper.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
clipperTue Aug-16-05 08:40 AM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
114 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#25. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 24


          

I'll go on record here. If I'm killed by a drunk driver please don't put up a cross with a teddy bear and flowers. Please donate that money to a deserving organization. Give the teddy bear to a child at Christmas that may not get any other gifts. Or donate the money to an organization like MADD that actually works to prevent drunk drivers from ripping apart families. I'd hate to be remembered by a dirt covered pile of stuff at the side of the road.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
2900GladeTue Aug-16-05 04:40 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
14 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#26. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 25


          

>I'll go on record here. If I'm killed by a drunk driver
>please don't put up a cross with a teddy bear and flowers.
>Please donate that money to a deserving organization. Give
>the teddy bear to a child at Christmas that may not get any
>other gifts. Or donate the money to an organization like
>MADD that actually works to prevent drunk drivers from
>ripping apart families. I'd hate to be remembered by a dirt
>covered pile of stuff at the side of the road.


I would think that if you saw a teddy bear stuck to a roadside cross a child was killed at that location. I just don't see why someone would use one for an adult.

Would you like to see 8 foot brick walls around graveyards so you don't have to look at all the flowers, teddy bears and dirt when you drive by?

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
2900GladeTue Aug-16-05 07:05 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
14 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#28. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 26


          

>>I'll go on record here. If I'm killed by a drunk driver
>>please don't put up a cross with a teddy bear and flowers.
>>Please donate that money to a deserving organization. Give
>>the teddy bear to a child at Christmas that may not get any
>>other gifts. Or donate the money to an organization like
>>MADD that actually works to prevent drunk drivers from
>>ripping apart families.

http://www.madd.org/news/0,1056,2428,00.html

MADD would argue that a memorial marker is no more distracting and no more trouble to mow around than other highway markers and billboards. Furthermore, if the sight of a memorial makes drivers think more carefully about safe driving, they will serve an important purpose.


http://www.madd.org/news/0,1056,2611,00.html


You were saying???

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
clipperWed Aug-17-05 08:01 AM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
114 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#30. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 28


          

The loss of a child is tragic. No two ways about it.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
ncsharkWed Aug-17-05 05:09 AM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
97 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#29. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 26


          

>Would you like to see 8 foot brick walls around graveyards
>so you don't have to look at all the flowers, teddy bears
>and dirt when you drive by?

The last I heard, there aren't any cemetaries in the right-of-way.

The problem is unauthorized material in the right-of-way. Objections to that are content-neutral.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

BeastieTue Aug-16-05 05:03 PM
Member since Jan 06th 2006
140 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#27. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Based on what's happened in Crawford with the 800 white crosses and the man from Waco who mowed several of them down with his truck, I'd like to preempt the angry mob who will no doubt show up in this thread by pointing out a couple of things.

1) It appears that this is a matter of personal politics and not related to the legality of the roadside crosses and their placement into the R.O.W.

And...

2) He was not charged with anything more than criminal mischief.

It's going to be interesting to see what, if anything, occurs from this. I think the lack of any substantial charge other than criminal mischief says a lot. I wonder if the protesters were fined for placing them? Probably not.

Anyone involved in the enforcement side down that way care to comment?

=======================
Beastie

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
NewbieWed Aug-17-05 12:11 PM
Charter member
1610 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#32. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 27


          

>Based on what's happened in Crawford with the 800 white
>crosses and the man from Waco who mowed several of them down
>with his truck, I'd like to preempt the angry mob who will
>no doubt show up in this thread by pointing out a couple of
>things.
>

I'll suggest withholding comments on the Crawford roadside crosses since that would veer the conversation into the primarily political domain.

I think the traditional roadside crosses issue is one where people of good will and shared concern for roadside spam will disagree. I'm OK with that disagreement. If the only things left were roadside crosses, that would be a wonderful thing. At that point we could work on a constitutional amendment allowing (or prohibiting) them.

Newbie (not)

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

topsharkWed Aug-17-05 12:10 PM
Charter member
176 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#31. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

"http://www.madd.org/news/0,1056,2611,00.html
You were saying???"

That your information is extremely dated. 1995/1998 vs 2001.

For a clear and concise ruling specific to Colorado, Please refer to the case of:
The people of the state of Colorado, Plaintiff, v. Rodney Lyle Scott, Defendant.

County Court, County of Adams, State of Colorado Criminal Action No. 00-M-2096
The hearing in this matter commenced on the 5th day of April 2001, before the honorable Jeffery L. Romeo, Judge of the County court, Division VI.

The last sentence in the last paragraph of the ruling reads:

“Therefore, the Court finds as a matter of law, this roadside memorial is not a venerated object. Therefore, the Court must grant judgment of acquittal”

A link to the web page for the entire ruling may be seen at this site:
http://ffrf.org/fttoday/2001/junejuly01/colorado.html

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
2900GladeWed Aug-17-05 12:32 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
14 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#33. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 31


          

>"http://www.madd.org/news/0,1056,2611,00.html
>You were saying???"
>
>That your information is extremely dated. 1995/1998 vs 2001.
>
>For a clear and concise ruling specific to Colorado, Please
>refer to the case of:
>The people of the state of Colorado, Plaintiff, v. Rodney
>Lyle Scott, Defendant.
>
>County Court, County of Adams, State of Colorado Criminal
>Action No. 00-M-2096
>The hearing in this matter commenced on the 5th day of April
>2001, before the honorable Jeffery L. Romeo, Judge of the
>County court, Division VI.
>
>The last sentence in the last paragraph of the ruling reads:
>
>“Therefore, the Court finds as a matter of law, this
>roadside memorial is not a venerated object. Therefore, the
>Court must grant judgment of acquittal”
>
>A link to the web page for the entire ruling may be seen at
>this site:
>http://ffrf.org/fttoday/2001/junejuly01/colorado.html



The information may be "dated" but I felt that it represents the general attitude that MAD has regarding this issue. I don't think the posters comment was specific to Colorado.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

georgemailWed Aug-24-05 08:13 AM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
28 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#34. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

An interesting approach to roadside memorials can be seen on the Florida Turnpike. Someone, the state of Florida, the Turnpike Commission, or whomever, has apparantly authorized a uniform sign that is placed outside of the guardrails, with the name of the victim and date of death. At least that's what they seem to be. Last year I saw a couple of people, presumably loved ones, tending to a pair of them.

No opinion here, just an observation.

Yes, I have better things to do...but I make time for my community.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Tomato StakeThu Aug-25-05 07:12 AM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
621 posts
Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#35. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 34


          

I have seen something similar, somewhere, placed onto the nearest street sign under the regular traffic sign.



.

Oh, there's a hint of cool in the air, and Winter is coming! I've got to gather more firewood... And Sign stakes make great fire starters!

Ack! Bandit Signs are LITTER!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
SoORsharkWed Sep-21-05 12:44 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
267 posts
Click to send private message to this authorClick to add this author to your buddy list
#36. "RE: Roadside Crosses"
In response to Reply # 35


          

I, too, find these things disgusting and distracting.

Do they serve as a reminder to drive sober, slow down, etc.? Not for me.

They don't communicate how the person died and any speculation that they are only related to drunk drivers is wrong. There is one such cross near my house where a person lost control while using a cell phone.

Why don't these supposedly greiving families do something constructive, instead? Like adopt the highway and pick up litter. I have seen signs that says "This highway adopted by friends of John Doe" which, I presume, are a way of honoring the memory of John Doe. That, to me, is a great way.

But I guess it requires more commitment than simply nailing a couple of white two by fours together and buying some plastic flower. Who has time for more than that?

I think the governments should put their foot down, but remind people they can "adopt the highway in memory of ..."

To me, the issue of street spam MUST be content neutral. I believe courts have said you can not regulate signs on the basis of content, and I don't think we should. Whether it is advertising HerbaLie, furniture, or death, an illegally-placed sign is still illegal.


I know of a hiking trail, on US Forest Service land in Northern CA, where a monument was put up to mark a teenager who fell to his death. A few years after he died, his father was doing some 'maintenance' on this illegal monument. Father fell to his death, too.

Friends of the family raised money for a massive concrete and bronze monument to be placed on this trail. But NO ONE bothered to get permission. If they had, they would have learned they needed to find a more appropriate place.



A few months ago, the USFS spent a couple hundred bucks to remove the monument and take it to the dump.

So, community money was wasted, tax payer money was wasted, and a life was lost, all because people didn't think ahead about proper placement of a monument.

I know this forum is about 'street spam'. But this issue, to me, is about not respecting the property rights of others, whether it is public property or private property.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

SpamSharkMon Jun-30-08 03:34 PM
Member since Nov 10th 2006
670 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#37. "RE: Roadside Crosses & State Sponsored Memorial Signs"
In response to Reply # 0


          

<<Take a look.>> (at the problem)
http://www.southwestern.edu/~bednarb/roadsidememorials/overlooking.html

I looked, and it’s not appropriate.

News Article: 6-30-08
http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/731147.html

Crash victims’ memories live on with an admonition

By ALEX BRANCHabranch@star-telegram.com


FORT WORTH — Austin Doak’s family will never forget the night he was killed by a wrong-way driver. For the next year, motorists on Airport Freeway will remember, too.

The Texas Department of Transportation last week installed a sign in memory of the 28-year-old near the spot he died May 9, 2004.

"Please don’t drink and drive," it says under Doak’s name..................

The sign is part of a state program that allows families of people killed in alcohol- or drug-related accidents to purchase memorial signs along state highways. For $300 each, the signs are displayed for one year.

- ---------------- ---------------


<<Roadside crosses are usually put up because somebody died there due to a drunk driver accident. Sometimes the crosses are decorated with all sorts of stuff like artificial flowers, teddy bears, etc. and mini-shrines. These are put up without permission on public road r-o-w's. They belong in a cemetary not on a roadside. They're morbid. They're distracting to drivers. They're ugly.>>

I agree.

Under the new plan, if a person dies on the highway by a sober driver, they can't buy a sign.

I hope other States don’t follow this Texas example. A political auction group legislated for this law. It's a bad advertising plan. Please help keep our roads SPAM free.

What am I missing?

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Top General General topic #3446 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.27
Copyright 1997-2003 DCScripts.com