I've seen some messages here from sign spammers who lamely try to justify their spamming. Here's my answer to them:
You're not legitimate local businesses advertising a sale. You're not local residents advertising a tag sale. You're a bunch of ignorant losers who are too lazy to go out and get a real job, and you arrogantly feel that you have a right to free advertising for your "business" even though the rest of us have to pay to advertise our real, legitimate businesses.
And you feel that you have the right to this free advertising even though it denies everyone else their right to a clean, pleasant landscape. This arrogances bothers me almost as much as the signs themselves.
I will not stop. Keep putting up your signs, and I'll keep tearing them down. This will get very expensive for you eventually. Go get a real job, and none of this will be necessary.
A question for the group: Do you think it would be a good tactic, if I traceroute the signs to somebody local, to print my own sign that says "This sign was put up by..." and print their name, address, and phone number? I'd attach it to the spammer's sign and leave it there for a day or two, then remove the whole thing.
#1. "RE: Why I shark, and a question" In response to Reply # 0
>A question for the group: Do >you think it would be >a good tactic, if I >traceroute the signs to somebody >local, to print my own >sign that says "This sign >was put up by..." and >print their name, address, and >phone number? I'd attach it >to the spammer's sign and >leave it there for a >day or two, then remove >the whole thing. > >What do you think?
I would, personally, not choose that approach. Adding the identity of the spammer to the sign would probably not be of much interest to anyone. The spammer would only be mildly irritated. Adding to the sign is probably illegal which is inherently problematic.
Getting a real identity of the spammer based on web address or phone number is often difficult. If you can get a good ID, seems to me it would be better to get a code enforcement person from the city/county to work with you and make it easy for them to issue a citation. The code enforcement people may or may not be interested in working with you.
The thinking of the code enforcement people in Dallas is that an ordinary citizen can file some sort of citizen complaint which would have the same effect as if the city had issued a citation. You do have to appear in court to testify. I am not aware of anyone who has tried this yet so I don't know whether it would actually be practical.
When the spammer is a large, well-known business, you can probably find someone high enough in the management chain who will be embarrassed enough to take the action necessary to get the spam removed. Great White and some other local sharks used this successfully when Target Stores put up dozens of help wanted signs on sticks along the roadway around a new store.
#2. "RE: Why I shark, and a question" In response to Reply # 1
Yes, Newbie, you're right. I need to get with the town governments in the area and ask them to start issuing citations (all of them do have anti-sign ordinances, and I should have the time to do that now that my initial "sweep" of the area is done).
None of the stores, etc in the area do any sign spamming, and it would be easy to get the towns to stop them quickly if they did.
However:
I can traceroute anyone who puts a Web address on the sign, even through redirects or obfuscated URLs, but I'm still a little confused: Half of the spammers are clueless Herbalife individuals from the bordering counties, but most of the rest are for websites registered to people seven or eight states away. Does this mean that people in (for one example) Ohio actually hire gypsy sign-nailers to come out here to New England?
This may actually be the case, as the signs tend to be clustered around the exit ramps of the Interstates. Can anyone enlighten me on this?
#3. "RE: Why I shark, and a question" In response to Reply # 2
but I'm still a little confused: Half of the spammers are clueless Herbalife individuals from the bordering counties, >but most of the rest are for websites registered to >people seven or eight states away. Does this mean that >people in (for one example) Ohio actually hire gypsy sign-nailers to come out here to New England? > >This may actually be the case, as the signs tend to be clustered around the exit ramps of the Interstates. Can anyone enlighten me on this?
>Redstone
Let me jump in on this one since you brought up some very valid questions and points. When we first got into tracing urls we found that about 2 out of 10 were from url owners from out of state which were using "down liners" linked back to their web site.
Some of these folks deal strictly through MLM in a diferent concept than the Herbalife folks. I'm not sure how these folks get recruited into the system and really don't care enough to pursue but it appears to be in the same manner as the herbalife folks. The difference being that herbalife has two different areas, one for the actual sale of product and the other recruiting.
On the bit about pasting a spammers ID on the sign. I'd be extremely careful. The city or municipality could very easy cite you for littering if they witness you placing on a utility standard outside of the code. This would defeat your sole purpose.
I believe that I would take Newbie's suggestion and file a complaint with the city with the understanding you will appear in court to testify against them. Attach the url info and spammers ID to the complaint. You may have to file several complaints with a copy to the mayor, county supervisor, or council member to get any results. Persistence is the key word.
I've used this approach numerous times in the municipality where I live in the Dallas area. The spammers always seem to pay the fines and settle out of court to avoid an appearence. They really don't desire for folks to know who they are.
#4. "RE: Why I shark, and a question" In response to Reply # 3
LAST EDITED ON 09-23-01 AT 11:01 PM (CDT)
I found that the city of Bloomington, MN has some very good justifications for why they don't allow signs on utility poles and on the right of way: http://www.ci.bloomington.mn.us/code/p2.phtml?IND=code19_75#19.106. Basically, they say that street spam interferes with traffic safety and makes public property look blighted. Of course, I'm not sure if all of that matters to a spammer who insists that he has the First Amendment right to advertise whenever and wherever he wants.
As far as looking up URLs on signs goes: Sometimes they work: try here, here, and here. Even if WHOIS doesn't show correct information, occasionally the sites will list an address: try www.123dreambuild.com and www.freelifetolive.com. (Or these people, who had the audacity to put a sign on the grounds of a church.)
But, as far as putting their name and address on the sign is concerned, I wouldn't risk it. Heck, I get worried enough that someone's going to write down the license plate number on my car and call the police, claiming that I was attacking a utility pole with a large garden tool. You want to make sure that the law is on your side here.
#5. "RE: Why I shark, and a question" In response to Reply # 4
If all things were just and right in this world, we all would be very good neighbors and the terrible incident on 9/11/01 would not have happened. That having been said, and to end the sign spamming, the ideal solution is for every city to have a daily program of removing these signs provided they have the manpower, the finances, and people that give a hoot. I am thankful that we are a small city that cares about ugly signs that we remove daily. And, most of all, I thank all of you who are removing these ugly signs whenever you can and on your own time. Now that is what I call true perserverance of keeping our cities clean. Have a great day.
When we do find a url that looks fake or they are using fictious information, we then report it to the registar.
So far this has worked extremely well. When we run into a problem that can't be solved by our general group, then that'when we turn the hounds loose. (Our esteemed web masters)
I wouldn't be too concerned about what other people think on you "attacking utility poles" with a garden tool. You will be absolutely amazed just how may folks are on our side.
The <www.freelifetolive.com> folks is registerd to some of your neighbors down the road in Owatonna. They even have a local telephone number listed. That's were I stayed when was up that way in May. Even took out about twenty or so the day I headed back to Dallas along I-35 in their fair town.
#7. "RE: Far Away spammers" In response to Reply # 6
I did a little sleuthing and found out why the URL owners may be thousands of miles away.
HerbaLife, for example, uses a multi-level marketing approach. The higher level distributors provide all sorts of tools for their "downline" distributors. One of the services they operate is a full service web site that may be shared by hundreds of downline distributors, for a fee, of course. Sometimes the low level distributors pick and register their own domain names which are then redirected to the mother site. In this case the domain lookup shows the local distributor. In other cases, the web site operator simply sells a pre-registered domain name to the new low-level distributor. In this case, the domain name lookup points to the distant web site operator (or whatever alias or PO Box he is using.) I have a feeling these high level distributors who operate web sites make a substantial profit on the various web and e-commerce services they sell to their downlines.
I think I have checked well over 100 of the HerbaLife sites and they point to only 4 or 5 actual web sites.
#8. "RE: Far Away spammers" In response to Reply # 7
Thanks to everyone for all the comments and advice, especially the ever-helpful Newbie (your explanation of the distant URL registration makes a lot of sense).
Some thoughts:
1) My experience in rooting out e-mail spammers led me to two REALLY good tools: UXN Spam Combat (http://combat.uxn.com) and Sam Spade (www.samspade.org). Try them; you'll like them.
2) I'm not worried about getting reported to the police for attacking the signs. First, I wear a tie every day, and people always assume you're on some kind of official business when you dress like that (I don't shark at night). I don't even hesitate when a police car is driving by, and have not had any officers stop to talk to me yet.
Second, I don't whack at the signs with a pole. I'm fortunate to be six-feet-four tall, so I stand on a plastic storage crate and rip the boogers off with a pair of Vise-Grips. The sound and feel of the crunch when you yank a sign off this way is immensely satisfying.
And - the best part - I've had a surprising number of people beep and wave as they're driving by, or just give me a big grin or a thumbs-up. A lot of people are fed up with these damn signs.
Last few days have been slow; after three weeks of sweeping the area clean, I'd gotten to feeling that a day wasn't complete unless I got half a dozen signs, and the spammers haven't come back yet. Maybe they got the word that this is a good place to have signs disappear.
I've heard of road trips being very effective. Having someone riding with you is good since they can scan the unfamiliar roadside for signs and jump out to grab them.
I've even heard of people putting stickers on 1 or 2 signs in a small town. The stickers say something like "Eliminate Street Spam, www.CAUSS.org" Some new sharks have shown up on the web site and were grateful to find out there were many like-minded people out there.
