I am a very new Shark, joining the cause (make that Causs) last week.
I know there is a wide range if opinion when it comes to choices such as pulling the whole sign, or just notching the corner, whether to pull election signs, garage sale signs, etc.
Personally, I intend to slice part of the vital info and leave the sign with a CAUSS sticker for a few days, then go back and take the whole thing. I feel like the spammers need to know what is happening to the signs, but after that, I want to get back to clean corners.
I generally leave garage sale signs alone, unless they are obviously up longer than the event.
Election signs don't bother me that much either, since most folks are fairly good about limiting the time they leave them up, and really only pop up every 4 years.
I have to this point, left church signs unharmed. My reasoning is that they are not attempting to blanket huge areas, and keep pretty much to neighborhoods. Plus, well... they're churches...
However, this morning I went by one of my protected corners and saw plenty of work for me.. but of the 3 new signs on that corner, two were cheap, tacky looking church signs! In fact, from the grocery store to my house, I counted 5 spam-quality church signs.
I'm sorry, It looks just like the rest of the garbage, and I don't like it. However I hesitate to pull them for fear of making other citizens angry with me/CAUSS it seems like we are getting good publicity, and I don't want to be the "loose cannon" in an organization that has nothing but good intentions.
Obviously, if I do remove them, I will just do so without leaving stickers or anything.
Any input from other CAUSS members would be greatly appreciated.
#1. "RE: Church signs... hmmm" In response to Reply # 0
The topic of church signs does arise every once in a while. For the most part, if the church acts similarly to the home builders --- i.e., signs go up on Friday or Saturday, and are down by Sunday evening --- most sharks will ignore them. Likewise if the signs are for a one-time church fund-raising event.
But spam is spam, and if the signs are up for several days, then they should come down. Try phoning the church and let them know that their signs are violating city ordinances; that may prod them into taking them down themselves. My daughter tried that approach several months ago, and it worked perfectly.
Regardless, if you do take the signs down yourself, I would agree with your own comments --- take them down, completely. No slashing, no stickers, etc. -- Remora Remora@Resourceful.com
#2. "RE: Church signs... hmmm" In response to Reply # 1
I generally agree with both previous comments regarding church spam. Sometimes church spam gets excessive -- Last year Lovers Lane UMC had put up about 60 painted wooden signs on metal sticks. Many of them were in the median and most of the rest were on street right-of-way. These were for a holiday bazaar sale at the church. I did not remove any but I was angry that there were so many. If they do it again this year, I will definitely contact the church.
One point of information. In looking at sign ordinances earlier this year, there was one city (can't remember which) in the DFW area that allowed certain signs for certain non-comercial events at schools to be posted under certain conditions.
#3. "Thanks! gota nother question..." In response to Reply # 1
LAST EDITED ON 12-03-00 AT 10:46 PM (CST)
Thanks for your input! I figured calling the churches would be the best way to go. And to be honest, I havent looked today to see if they do take the signs down themselves within a day or two.
I do have another question though!
I have been reading some of the older notes about printing stickers, and am close to printing some myself. I thought maybe some psycological warfare might help, and am thinking about adding the following statement (or something close) to the stickers.
"This corner is protected from illegal advertising by the citizens of this community. We have more money, more man-power and more patience than you do. Don't waste more of your profit just to prove our point."
This lets spammers AND other folks know that the junk is indeed illegal. Also, it has the air of a "neighborhood watch" ring to it and the idea of this being a community effort may make the spammers a tiny bit more reluctant to actually place new signs. And lastly it gives the person placing the sticker a little more weight if they should ever have to explain what they're doing... that they're not some vigilante, but part of an organized community effort.
#4. "RE: Thanks! gota nother question..." In response to Reply # 3
Good thoughts, but please hold off on the stickers for the moment. We have some issues that we have to iron out regarding the use of stickers, what is said on the stickers, and which cities to avoid using the stickers.
#6. "RE: Church signs... hmmm" In response to Reply # 0
>I have to this point, left church signs unharmed. My reasoning >is that they are not attempting to blanket huge areas, >and keep pretty much to neighborhoods. Plus, well... they're churches... >
>>Obviously, if I do remove them, >I will just do so >without leaving stickers or anything. >Any input from other CAUSS members >would be greatly appreciated. >Thanks! >LandShark
Pardon my delayed response as I have been out of the country for the past month.
Regarding Church Signs, this is a very touchy subject. Normally a telephone call to the Pastor, Preacher, Bishop, Rabbi or Father, bringing to their attention the violation of ordinances and laws will do wonders. It is not CAUSS' intention to appear to be sacrilegious in any shape form or fashion. Please remember that "descretion and tact is the better part of valor"
Garage sales: We normally leave them alone, however, if they cover a square mile area and are in blatant violation of city ordinances, "down they come". City ordinaces are extremely specific on "what, where, when and how".
Same with "Home buidlers signs", but be exteremely careful. Politics get involved with the local home builders and politicians.
Political signs in Texas are covered under the same laws, if they are in public right of ways, down they come along with a call to the area campaign chairperson.
On the subject of CAUSS stickers, this is an extremely touchy subject in some municipalities, please email me for further info.
Please remember - CAUSS is a "most" cooperative effort with the local CE offices and officers. It has taken over two years for us to get the "undivided attention" of CE and we DO NOT want to get these very over worked folks PO'd at our group.
If you have a question you prefer not to post on the forum, send us a private email message, we're here to help.
#7. "RE: Church signs... hmmm" In response to Reply # 6
LAST EDITED ON 12-21-00 AT 01:11 PM (CST)
Churches should set an EXAMPLE... An obeying laws is a Good Example... It is against the law to place signs on the right-o-way... and subject to fines... I remember last year, I did an outline of the 10 ten commandments tablets with black spray paint (... and inside the design i wrote in big letters "Thou Shall Not Place Sign Here). Churches have no problem trying to see regulations in cities and states are observed...so in turn they should do the same...obey laws of Caesar!
Regarding political signs...who wrote the laws that you see stated at the bottom of political campaign signs?... POLITICIANS... and the law is: Signs are not allowed on Public Right-o-Ways, but only on private land with permission from the owner... no earlier than 90 days before the election and removed 10 days after the election... Texas transportation code (chapters 391, 392, 393, 394). If a writer, enforcer, and judge of the law can't abide by the laws,... what does that say about the person... Such as a man running for District Attorney, one who enforces the laws, should set an example.
Homebuilders... there is nothing in the Federal and State code that allows homebuilders to place signs along our Right-o-ways or Off-premise... in fact the laws are explicit against placing such signs...And the objective of the states and local communities is to strengthen the federal law not weaken it 7/24/365... And this business about the homebuilder homes(increases tax base or whatever their excuse)... so does Hotel, Motels, restauarants, car rentals,entertainment... in fact those taxes help pay for such things as Arenas and Stadiums in Houston. The homebuilders have signs blightng our roadways leading to their homes in a neighborhood, with a sign at the entrance Deed Restrictions Enforced Here... sounds like a double standard... break the laws on our roadways but deed restrictions enforced in our manicured subdivision.
So to sum up my thoughts It can be expressed in one word.....HYPOCRISY
#8. "RE: Church signs... hmmm" In response to Reply # 7
Hey Bandit Slasher, I agree with the thrust and intensity of your points but there are some subtlties that should not be overlooked.
>Churches should set an EXAMPLE... An >obeying laws is a Good >Example... It is against the >law to place signs on >the right-o-way... and subject to >fines... I remember last year,
It is important to know local and state laws to verify the above. In at least one case local non-profits can post certain signs on right-of-way. I know this sounds odd so I'll have to find the ordinances if I can. > >Regarding political signs...who wrote the laws >that you see stated at >the bottom of political campaign >signs?... POLITICIANS... and the law >is: Signs are not allowed >on Public Right-o-Ways, but
I think it actually says state highway right of way
>only on private land with permission >from the owner... no earlier >than 90 days before the >election and removed 10 days >after the election... Texas transportation >code (chapters 391, 392, 393, >394).
Correct me if I am wrong on this but I think municipalities can regulate political (or any signs) more or less strictly than the transportation code specifies. Addison has very tight regulations even on private property.
>If a writer, >enforcer, and judge of the >law can't abide by the >laws,... what does that say >about the person... Such as >a man running for District >Attorney, one who enforces the >laws, should set an example.
I fully agree with this point. Candidates for judge, sheriff, and DA frequently violate the law in the Dallas area. I have called some of the campaigns and they don't care. They should be embarrassed. > > >Homebuilders... there is nothing in the >Federal and State code that >allows homebuilders to place signs >along our Right-o-ways or Off-premise... >in fact the laws are >explicit against placing such signs...And
In many localities, homebuilders do have exemptions in the ordinances. I think this is wrong but they have the obvious political clout needed to influence the politicos.
P.S.: What is the highway beautification legislation that is being considered in 2001?
#9. "RE: Church signs... hmmm" In response to Reply # 8
As a post script, My wife pointed out that the two churches in question did not actually have their own "Church" and the signs were directing people to a nearby school for services.
I wish the wouldnt post so many, but I wont bother them myself, if other sharks feel otherwise, they are free to yank em or do as they see fit.
Also, I have yet to paste any stickers up, and have been considering alternatives. I think the Texas mom had a good idea, and will be more than willing to pony up some funds for an occasional newspaper promo of CAUSS. just dont make me the treasurer.