KHovnanian home builders just put up some big (3'x6')? signs in Hwy.6 & Westpark area. Painted up 4 out of 5 tonight before I ran out of paint, I can only hope they spent a lot of $$ on these as I had to work on them with 2 cans of spray paint at a time.
I was actually thinking about the new law down here concerning graffiti, apparently if your hit on your property or whatever you have only a certain amount of time to remove or make repairs to it.
It crossed my mind that if graffiti were on these home builder signs they would have to remove/repair the signs or get fines from the city.......just can't bring myself to doing graffiti though so until then its on with flat black at 99 cents a can

<< I can only hope they spent a lot of $$ on these as I had to work on them with 2 cans of spray paint at a time.>>
KHovnanian home builders just put up some big (3'x6')?>>

These are the big signs made out of wood? Planted in the ground on 4 X 4 wood poles? These are not bandit signs?
If so, these are worth hundreds of dollors. CE should best take care of this. They could have a sign permit issued and be there legally?

<<<< was actually thinking about the new law down here concerning graffiti,>>>>

I am thinking you may rightfully be held responsible if caught. Maybe you should inform the police concerning your actions and see what they think. Then ask them about painting the small bandit signs and see if they care about them.

<<It crossed my mind that if graffiti were on these home builder signs they would have to remove/repair the signs or get fines from the city.......>>

It will get the attention of CE and most likely the signs will get removed and never return. Your mission may be accomplished, or maybe they will simply repair it; because there is no formal complaint against the signs placement.

<<just can't bring myself to doing graffiti though>>

Sounds like you just did graffiti. This is not a reasonable appropriate action of a law-abiding citizen. If you want to paint the little bandit signs, go for it. If the sign is valued over $25 dollors, take it to CE or make arrangements to have it picked up by filing a complaint.

You refer to the term CE, what is that?

Code enforcement (CE) is a department in your city’s government.

Code means “rules, principles, or laws”.

Example.

Fire Department enforces the Fire Code.
Building Inspectors enforce building code.
Health inspector enforces health code.

CE takes care of many situations like tall grass, junk vehicles, broken windows, and yards full of trash. CE keeps the city looking good.

This link also mentions graffiti and shows how this city functions.
http://www.littletongov.org/comdev/codeenforcement.asp

Around here, the post and panel sign complaint to CE would be forwarded to the Building Inspections department. The building inspections department will check to see if a permit has been issued, and then proceeds from there.

CE wants complaints. So please help them out. They need a complaint from a citizen to act on the violation. They are a complaint driven system. Different than Law Enforcement (LE), CE is not pro-active.

These signs, mostly made from a sheet of 1/2" 4'x 8' sheet of plywood with 4 x 4 posts, are known in the trade as a post and panel sign. 99.9% of them are illegally placed on vacant lots, most of which have For Sale signs. We have seen a large increase in these signs here in NW Harris county as a result of the new bandit sign law. They are all illegal under the current sign code that does not allow for off premises signs. I have heard prices of from $400 to $800 per sign. I understand that a chain saw works real good on them. After the chain saw falls on the 4 x 4's they typically don't re-appear since they think the property owner has removed them. Another ploy is to nail or paste another bandit sign over the above sign's arrow using something like construction adhesive. Some are made with a vinyl printed sheet placed on the plywood sheet and some even are made with a thick version of the famous bandit sign Coroplast and a box cutter makes quick work of those signs.

I have read if you replace the normal nozzle of the paint can with one from one that takes a spray wand like brake cleaner or WD 40 or drill out the nozzle, you get a broad, fast spray that will empty a spray can in 45 seconds.

"post and panel" sounds like the perfect name for these signs. I think they rely on the assumption that, because they seem so substantial, people think they are legitimate. Apartment complexes in the Dallas area seem to like these signs. As you say, they appear in vacant lots and in places that seem to be "no man's land" like overpasses, properties for sale, etc. A few years ago, they put one up in a city park. The city went after that one, and others too, as I recall.

These big signs usually identify the promoter -- home builder, apartment complex, etc. That makes it easier for the code enforcement people to do their job by visiting the business. It is certainly wise to try to get the CE people to address these, since they may issue citations and they may get the attention of the spammers with threats of big fines.

Of course, some jurisdictions don't even respond to the gigantic eyesores!!

Newbie (not)

About four or five years ago there was an apartment builder that was putting up these post and panel signs all over the area.
The signs were advertising the new apartments for rent.

They made the mistake of placing several in a TxU ROW that abutted a small park owned by the City of Dallas. We called Dallas CE and when nothing happened, we placed a call to the area supervisor of ROW's and explained problem.

He sent a crew out with three or four chainsaws and cut the signs up in 1'x 2'foot sections.
Then they called the builder to come pick up the trash or get hit with a trespassing charges in addition to littering.

The signs magically disappeared overnight.

Strongly suggest that you call CE and tell them the signs are obstructing the view of traffic and suggest moving them before someone has a bad accident.

GW

Advice needed.

We live in a subdivision that borders the intersection of two fairly busy streets in Far NW Harris County. There is a vacant commercial lot owned by Walgreens on the corner which backs up to our homes. The lot is filled with huge builder signs, bandit signs, sprinkler company signs, etc... and is a horrible eyesore. There were approximately 20-25 signs on private property inside the plane that separates the County road easement from private property, and there was one sign located in the ditch inside the County easement.

Over the last few months, our management company contacted Walgreens and secured several things on our behalf...
- Walgreens posted "No Trespassing" Signs along the perimeter of the lot
- Walgreens promised to remove all signs whenever they mow the lot
- Walgreens issued our HOA a letter authorizing us to enter the lot
at our discretion and remove any signs located on their private property at will.
- Walgreens informed us in writing they had not given permission to any party to place signs on their private property.

One of our Board members also attended the Precinct #4 bandit sign class and received certification regarding sign removal.

Several months ago, we notified all sign owners they were trespassing on private property and that Walgreens had not given permission to any builder or commercial venture to erect signs on their private property. We asked them to remove their signs asap. Of course, we were ignored.

Recently, after assuming we had all necessary authority and permissions in place, we removed the signs with chainsaws, cutting them as close to the ground as possible and piling them up for any interested parties to retrieve. During removal, a project manager from CASTLE ROCK BUILDERS came on to the lot and became very aggressive and abusive. He threatened to sue us for damages and stated that because Walgreens had not posted a 'private property' sign, he was within his rights to trespass and place a sign on their property.

In the process, he was very insulting, stating he would 'slow down' and 'simplify' things so we could understand what he was saying, cursed, call our volunteers "stupid, immature and childish", stated we were lying about having permission from Walgreens, lying about our identity and phone numbers, and about being members of the Board of our HOA, took photographs of us and our cars and threatened to call the police if 'we moved a muscle'. Finally we told him to leave....that we had permission to be on the property, but he did not...and that WE would call the police.

Very rude guy...but I digress. )

His argument is that the onus is on the property owner to publicly place "private property" signs. That he has the right to place his signs on any COUNTY property as long as the signs are not in the easement and that since Walgreens did not advertise the property as private, he legally made the assumption the property belonged to the county and therefore, no one had the right to cut down his sign.

To me...this is just nonsense. His company was notified in November and February that they had signs placed on private property which needed to be removed. And for the last month the lot has had 12 'no trespassing' signs in place. How can he claim to be unaware he was on private property? And can anyone place a sign on any County property?

(Btw...we did not remove the one sign that was in the County Easement. Per the bandit sign class, large signs over $25 in value IN the County easement is a law enforcement issue and per their instructions,we planned to forward a picture of the sign to the County Attorney for enforcement.)

Sorry this is such a long one...but I'd love to know what you all think of this guy's argument and threats.

You were in the right. Absence os of signs prohibiting the illegal placement of signs is a novel argument, but it does not hold water. Plus, no building permit has been let for the larger signs. You have been given the legal right to act in the owner's stead. Congratulations on your initiative.

I have a similar understanding with two Walgreens and one CVS here. I can remove any sign on their corners, whether they are on the ROW, or over the ROW on the company's properties.

Thanks for the reply. I've been doing a bit of research that I'd like to run by you all.

This guy argues he has the right to place signs on any County property as long as it is not in the road easement or right of way. But I've found several sites that state signage visable from a TxDOT thoroughfare must be approved and a permit issued. So I wonder which roads are considered to be TxDOT and to fall under this set of rules?

Frankly, I find it hard to believe people can just plop signs on any county-owned property without permission.

Btw...this CASTLEROCK BUILDERS goofball lives in the subdivision across the street from the Walgreens vacant corner lot. Given he works in real estate and home construction and actually lives nearby, no way was he 'ignorant' of the fact this was private property and that he was a trespassing. Not only that, after we asked him to leave, he drove his vehicle up on to the lot and was clearly defying the 'no trespassing' signs AGAIN.

Without a specific power of attorney, I do not believe that you are able to even file or be complaintant regarding trespassing on this lot.

The basic tenet behind the illegality to display private signs on public property (including all rights of way) is that public property may not be converted to private use without a permit. Although your local law may be different, I believe it would be contrary to your county laws for someone to post a sign on county properties. For instance, water/flood control easements... (It would probably be considered illegal to modify any surface around such, anyway.)

We had a similar situation here where the spammer was on the ROW. I took his signs many times. He moved them back into the county fire station's property. I still took them. He complained that the fireman had given him permission. I replied that a county employee cannot contravene the laws of the county prohibiting the conversion of county property. He stopped placing signs on the corner, and indeed, anywhere I pick up litter.

By the way.... You should have just called the police and let them sort the guy out. It sounds like he made "terrosistic threats" (admittedly that is the Georgia term for it), or at the very least assault through his threatening attitude.

I agree re: trespassing. All we could do was threaten to report the guy to law enforcement for trespassing on property with posted no trespassing signs...and then it would have been a criminal issue between the County on behalf of Walgreens and this fellow.

He eventually left us alone, but yes, while he was there, he was very threatening, physically circling our workers and trying to impede them while taking pictures and taunting them with profanity. I noticed he returned to the property later, drove his vehicle past the 'no trespassing' signs and was parked up on the lot doing something.

This morning I contacted the County Engineer and confirmed this guy is full of it. In Harris County, most off-premise signs are illegal, however there is a temporary exception which will permanently expire on 12/3/2009 for signs advertising real estate for sale or rent. BUT, the restrictions on these signs are severe...they must be small, spaced 100 feet from each other, be located with 800 feet of their business venture, not be located in an area that is majority residential AND they must be permitted by the City of Houston (even if outside city limits). No permits will be granted to squatters who don't have permission of private property owners. No permits will be granted to those applying to place signs on public or gov't-owned property. After 12/09, no more off-premise builder signs will be permitted. (CanNOT wait for that day.)

In this builder's case, his signs are advertising neighborhoods 4-5 miles away, they are located on a lot with 25 builder signs standing shoulder to shoulder AND he did not have permission of the land owner to place the sign there.

Furthermore, he had ample notification via phone calls and posted warning signs that the property was private and he should remove his sign. The guy just needs to take a xanax and get over himself imho. We didn't destroy his sign (though we were tempted to rid the world of those eyesores).... so he can pick it up and move it to a LEGAL location, IF he can find one.

<<Sounds of Chainsaws in background>> BWAaaaahhahahahahahaaaaaa!

Seriously, if you have permission by the property owner to remove the eyesores, do so. That builder carries no weight.

haha....looks like the County swooped in and hauled away all those signs before the builders could retrieve them. Means we won't have to look at them somewhere else.

One sign left (the one in the easement) and once again, we will have a beautiful green lot with just grass and tall pines. (Well there are the many, small 'no trespassing' signs placed by Walgreens, but they are pretty tasteful as far as signs go. About the size of a license plate, mounted on a green iron stake, out on the row line near the street. Could be worse.)

Our remaining sign owner emailed to ask we not report him and give him a couple days to remove the sign. He says he has a guy hired and it will happen. We'll see...he has until Monday.

There is a corner at Grant Road and Spring Cypress had about 15 various builder signs up until a couple of weeks ago when it looks like a chain saw ran away and paid a visit and removed them. Looking on HCAD this property is also owned by Walgreens. And a sprinkler sign partially in the ROW. Could this be the same property or just similar?

>
>One of our Board members also attended the Precinct #4 bandit
>sign class and received certification regarding sign removal.
>
>

>
>(Btw...we did not remove the one sign that was in the County
>Easement. Per the bandit sign class, large signs over $25 in
>value IN the County easement is a law enforcement issue and
>per their instructions,we planned to forward a picture of the
>sign to the County Attorney for enforcement.)
>

I attended the Pct #4 training also and learned that a Trained Volunteer is authorized to remove signs worth >$25 (in the R-O-W), but it requires a dated photo, filling out a small form and turning the photo, form and sign into the county. They gave us the list of all Constable locations, but I'm not sure how involved they are except for Precinct 4.

Ask your trained Board member and see if he will help with any of the bigger signs in the ROW.

good luck.

'Just keep pullin' 'em up'

Some of the plywood used (1/2") is MDO, medium density overlay, for sign use. It has a very good front side and a not so bad back side and is exterior grade. It smells like fir plywood instead of the pine plywood that is most common at HD. Good stuff if you can come by some.