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Subject: "A fair warning . . ." Previous topic | Next topic
Art (Guest)Mon Feb-11-02 12:46 PM

  
"A fair warning . . ."


          

Dudes,

I've been a silent supporter of your activities for a while--but we need to talk.

Today, I drove by one of those LOSE-50-POUNDS-IN-10-MINUTES signs that's been stuck in the ground for a couple weeks, and some bozo had stuck a big, neon-orange, C.A.U.S.S., "Please Remove Your Litter" sticker on it. Cute. The sign was in a shopping center in Monument.

If this was one of yours--shark it. Or I will, tomorrow. You've hijacked an eyesore and turned it into an even BIGGER one.

You've become part of The Problem.

I understand that you have some kind of legal fight in Evergreen that you need to fund, but, if you want to advertise, pay for it. I put about $1,500.00 a month into advertising my carpet-cleaning business. Why the hell should YOU get a free ride?

If you want to make illegitimate signs disappear, I won't lose any sleep over it. But if you've become spammers yourselves, then ##### you.

The sign I'm talking about is in the shopping center in Monument on Highway 105, between the post office and the Cork 'N Bottle Liquor store. If you don't have the nuts to pull it, then I WILL, at 9:30 tomorrow morning.

--Art

  

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amigoidTue Feb-12-02 08:31 AM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
66 posts
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#13. "RE: A fair warning . . ."
In response to Reply # 0


          

>Dudes,
>
>I've been a silent supporter of
>your activities for a while--but
>we need to talk.
>
>Today, I drove by one of
>those LOSE-50-POUNDS-IN-10-MINUTES signs that's been
>stuck in the ground for
>a couple weeks, and some
>bozo had stuck a big,
>neon-orange, C.A.U.S.S., "Please Remove Your
>Litter" sticker on it.
>Cute. The sign was
>in a shopping center in
>Monument.
>
>If this was one of yours--shark
>it. Or I will,
>tomorrow. You've hijacked an
>eyesore and turned it into
>an even BIGGER one.

Hmmm. Yesterday I pulled out 19 signs, and sharked/stickered
none of them. Why? Because I don't frequent that area enough
that I plan on being back in a day or two. (No matter, there
are at least 2 other sharks in that area, judging by the
signs and different stickers I saw.

>
>You've become part of The Problem.

I respectfully disagree. If I find an intersection
that is repeatedly getting spammed after I *pull* the signs,
I'll pull all of them *except one* which I'll sticker, *THEN*
I'll come back in a day or three and remove the sign completely.
I want to leave something that the spammer will see telling
him that his/her signs are deliberately being removed.


>
>
>I understand that you have some
>kind of legal fight in
>Evergreen that you need to
>fund, but, if you want
>to advertise, pay for it.

Frankly, there is a fight everywhere, not just
in Evergreen. Its just that someone is making
empty threats there regarding their illegal trash.

> I put about $1,500.00
>a month into advertising my
>carpet-cleaning business. Why the
>hell should YOU get a
>free ride?

Explain how we are getting a free ride.
We are out there, largely removing the signs that
should not be there in the first place, and
for the few signs that do get sharked, (unlike the
silly illustration in Westword where they had
every single sign being sharked/stickered and
not being cleaned up) we are trying to leave a
message to the lawbreaker that this activity
will not be tolerated.

>
>If you want to make illegitimate
>signs disappear, I won't lose
>any sleep over it.
>But if you've become spammers
>yourselves, then ##### you.

I'll repeat, I have never sharked a sign,
I have stickered a few. But then I return and
remove the sign (unless someone else does first).

>
>The sign I'm talking about is
>in the shopping center in
>Monument on Highway 105, between
>the post office and the
>Cork 'N Bottle Liquor store.
> If you don't have
>the nuts to pull it,
>then I WILL, at 9:30
>tomorrow morning.
>
>--Art

Art, let me propose a possible scenario here.
Perhaps whomever stickered that sign doesn't live
in that area, or frequents it rarely, so rather than
leave a fresh area for new signs he stickered one,
both to hinder the spammer and also raise awareness.
Now if the sign offends you, you have just as much
right to pull it down as the next person, so go ahead,
with my thanks.

Let me commend you for not engaging in the same practice of
posting illegal signs, and for caring enough about your
community to get involved and help clean up. Let me
re-interate, I haven't sharked signs, and I rarely sticker,
unless there are several in an area, and then I will remove
the majority and sticker a remaining one. Then come back
later and remove the sign completely.

Another suggestion, take the time to find out who the
Code Enforcement person is in your area (or the area of
question) and alert them to the problem. They are required
to get out there and pull the signs whenever they can and
that includes all illegal signs. Note that by choice most
members will pass over "Lost Dog" or "Garage Sale" signs, or
in my case I also ignore signs pleading for info/witnesses to
car accidents in the area posted. Are those signs legal? No.
But we are making a values judgement about the relative
"wrongness" of the sign. A lost pet sign or garage sale
sign is often pulled within a day or two that it goes up,
by the person(s) that put it up in the first place. It is also
usually posted by a resident within that community.

I have never seen nor heard tell of a sign spammer, such as
those that engage in a MLM scheme, or a el cheapo insurance
offer, EVER COME BACK AND REMOVE THEIR SIGNS. And it has been
documented more than once on this website that these criminals
will often range far and wide to post their signs with no
intention of "only leaving them there temporarily".

Are the lost dog signs legal? No. But we'll leave those for CE
to pick up, and focus on the much more pervasive problem created
by the coroplast-loving cowards that post a sign with ambiguous
contact information so as to prevent someone from identifying
the actual owner of the signs. If there is a lost dog sign,
there is usually a local, easily identifiable number/address.
The MLM scams on the other hand, hide behind 800 numbers and
other facades like websites registered under someone else's
name.

Art, Code Enforcement has a lot on their plate, besides sign
removal, they have to do building inspections and other tasks.
Its a matter of prioritizing limited manpower and resources.
What CAUSS does is attack those signs which are clearly illegal,
and try several methods to discourage the criminals posting them.
I have posted on the *few* stickers I have placed, the city
codes in question to that apply to the violation, my
intention to try and track down the culprits, and a commitment
to take time out to testify in court as a witness if I can
catch someone in the act.

I'll admit that is going the extra mile, but its what I'm willing
to do. And yes, I have a life. I volunteer at my son's school,
I am active in my church and my community. I am not blameless
either, I have been ticketed for speeding and other things,
but that does not absolve me from my responsibility to try
and improve the community I live in.

I can also sympathize with your frustration at those that put
up the signs. As a small businessman you may have been tempted
to put up a few signs of your own, and you interpet CAUSS
stickers as a betrayal of your own forebearance. Let me encourage
you that the very best way to get more business is by positive
word of mouth, not by using signs. There are some people that
would never use the services of someone using illegal signs. They
logically assume that if that business is unethical enough
to engage in illegal practices to promote their business, that
they are not trustworthy enough to permit inside our home. BUT,
if a friend or associate tells me what a great job someone did
on their carpet, I would be very much inclined to give them
a try.

Hopefully I've given you something to consider.

If you see an illegal sign, pull it down. If you see a
illegal sign that has been sharked or stickered, pull it
down. Just pull it down. Direct your wrath at those most
deserving of it, the criminals that put the signs up in
the first place.



  

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Replies to this subthread
RE: A fair warning . . ., Redstone, Feb 12th 2002, #18
RE: A fair warning . . ., Newbie, Feb 12th 2002, #21
RE: A fair warning . . ., amigoid, Feb 12th 2002, #25
RE: A fair warning . . ., Art (Guest), Feb 12th 2002, #19
      RE: A fair warning . . ., Redstone, Feb 12th 2002, #22
           RE: A fair warning . . ., uglylitter, Feb 12th 2002, #23
                RE: A fair warning . . ., Redstone, Feb 12th 2002, #24
                     RE: A fair warning . . ., Art (Guest), Feb 13th 2002, #26
                          RE: A fair warning . . ., amigoid, Feb 13th 2002, #27

    
RedstoneTue Feb-12-02 02:06 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
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#18. "RE: A fair warning . . ."
In response to Reply # 13


          

amigoid, I'm a little confused (which is not unusual). You say you've never "sharked" signs. I've thought all along that "sharking" was synonymous with "removal." Are you using it in the sense of "partial removal," and is that what everyone else understands the term to mean?

If so, maybe we need to clarify that in the FAQ, because I've been misunderstanding it. Of course, I've never claimed to be the brightest bulb in the ol' chandelier, so it could just be me.

Redstone

  

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NewbieTue Feb-12-02 04:54 PM
Charter member
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#21. "RE: A fair warning . . ."
In response to Reply # 18


          

>amigoid, I'm a little confused (which
>is not unusual). You say
>you've never "sharked" signs. I've
>thought all along that "sharking"
>was synonymous with "removal." Are
>you using it in the
>sense of "partial removal," and
>is that what everyone else
>understands the term to mean?
>
>
>If so, maybe we need to
>clarify that in the FAQ,
>because I've been misunderstanding it.
>Of course, I've never claimed
>to be the brightest bulb
>in the ol' chandelier, so
>it could just be me.
>
>
>Redstone


I consider myself a sign shark though I subscribe to the complete removal philosophy and don't just take a bite out of the sign. If I had to come up with a definition of sign shark I would define it as follows: 1) someone who removes illegal signs, 2) someone who disables an illegal sign by removing part of it or by obscurring all or part of its content.

I think it is a term that will remain loosely defined.

Newbie

Newbie (not)

  

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amigoidTue Feb-12-02 11:21 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
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#25. "RE: A fair warning . . ."
In response to Reply # 18


          

Redstone, what I meant was that I will remove
a sign or once in a blue moon sticker one,
but I have never gone after one with an
exacto knife and sharked it (take a bite out of it).

  

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Art (Guest)Tue Feb-12-02 02:32 PM

  
#19. "RE: A fair warning . . ."
In response to Reply # 13


          

Amigoid,

Thank you for your thoughtful response--somehow I managed to miss it earlier.

We're kindred spirits. I respect your approach.

But, from now on, I won't pull down stickered or defaced signs. I'm tired of people who have the opportunity get the job done, and then go limp. It's not "somebody else's" job. It's theirs as soon as they step up to the plate. I'm willing to let the world see these delegating weakasses for what they are.

I agree with your theory that this guy might not be a local. He seems completely out of step with the area. If he's reading this, I hope that in the future he'll either do it all, or do nothing and just leave it for me. This walking-the-fence stuff drives me crazy.

Thanks.

--Art


  

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RedstoneTue Feb-12-02 06:24 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
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#22. "RE: A fair warning . . ."
In response to Reply # 19


          

LAST EDITED ON 02-12-02 AT 08:25 PM (CST)

I'm tired of people who have the opportunity get the job done, and then go limp. It's not "somebody else's" job. It's theirs as soon as they step up to the plate. I'm willing to let the world see these delegating weakasses for what they are.

Art, I don't get it, though I suspect I'm wasting my breath here. But educate me, please, on the following example:

I live in Connecticut, and go to the Providence airport in Rhode Island a couple of time a year. This is an hour and a half away from my house.

Every time I go there, I see signs all over; it's a disgusting mess. Given that I don't have an extra ENTIRE DAY that it would take to clean up the area, does that mean that I'm a weakass if I try to jolt the people who live in the area to rip down the signs by stickering them? I haven't done that yet, but am considering it, given that I could sticker a lot more signs in a couple of hours than I could rip down.

Why do you have such a hardon about the stickers, anyway? My opinion is that if someone does anything about the signs, whether it's the same method that I use (complete removal) or not, it's still better than doing nothing!

This walking-the-fence stuff drives me crazy.

Your "my way or the highway" attitude seems a little bit counterproductive to me.

Just one guy's opinion...and a quick look through the forums will confirm for you that I'm not anyone's idea of a "weakass."

Redstone

  

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uglylitterTue Feb-12-02 06:50 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
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#23. "RE: A fair warning . . ."
In response to Reply # 22


          

This fellow is an interesting case. One the one hand he claims to be against signs, which makes him our ally. On the other hand, he's declared war on us.

No small number of responders have talked about the educational nature of the stickers and his response is that we're all "delegating weakasses."

I'm all for letting this fellow be. If he wants to lash out at both sides, let him. Hopefully he'll continue his version of the battle anyway and despite his disgruntlement, we'll all get the thing done together.

In the meantime, I salute anyone who does anything against the signs. And that includes those who do it in a way I don't choose to do. Let the variety be our strength.

  

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RedstoneTue Feb-12-02 08:31 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
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#24. "RE: A fair warning . . ."
In response to Reply # 23


          

>This fellow is an interesting case. One the one hand he claims to be against signs, which makes him our ally. On the other hand, he's declared war on us.
>
>No small number of responders have talked about the educational nature of the stickers and his response is that we're all "delegating weakasses."
>
>I'm all for letting this fellow be. If he wants to lash out at both sides, let him. Hopefully he'll continue his version of the battle anyway and despite his disgruntlement, we'll all get the thing done together.
>
>In the meantime, I salute anyone who does anything against the signs. And that includes those who do it in a way I don't choose to do. Let the variety be our strength.


Well said, uglylitter, and good advice. I'll not let old Art's contradictions perplex me further.

Redstone

  

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Art (Guest)Wed Feb-13-02 09:21 AM

  
#26. "RE: A fair warning . . ."
In response to Reply # 24


          

Redstone,

I realize that this discussion--as invigorating as it's been--is starting to draw out, but I don't want to leave you perplexed. I'll wrap up and retire from this thread:

1. When the sign is pulled, it's gone. The mess is cleaned up. Mission accomplished.

2. When the sign is stickered or defaced, it's still there, uglier than before. Mission NOT accomplished. The work is left for somebody else. I fully understand the apologia supporting this tactic, but the scope of the problem in the Tri-Lakes area and the demographics here don't justify it.

At the selfish level (and--to be honest--this is probably the root of my irritation), people here know that street spam annoys me and that I remove signs. I don't want to be associated with stickering. I own a business here and am active in the chamber of commerce and other organizations. This is an upper-income area with traditional behavior expectations, and the kind of militancy evidenced by stickering is viewed as eccentric and crass. It's looked down upon. That's one of the reasons it wouldn't be an effective tactic here.

3. On THAT basis, folks--with philosophical differences laid aside--please show a little consideration for fellow sharks in other communities, along with the local sensibilities of those neighborhoods. Specifically, if you're passing through the Monument-Palmer Lake area and see a sign, please just kipe it or leave it for me.

With that, I'm outta here. Thanks to all for for your patience and for taking time to respond--I think you're a great group of people. I came to this website red-faced, smoky-eared and believing that stickering was your mainstay tactic. I'm leaving considerably calmer and reassured that that's not the case at all.

I leave educated.

Thanks.

--Art



  

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amigoidWed Feb-13-02 12:07 PM
Member since Jan 02nd 2006
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#27. "RE: A fair warning . . ."
In response to Reply # 26


          


Thats a relief. I'm glad that this was resolved equitably. (sp)

>With that, I'm outta here.
>Thanks to all for for
>your patience and for taking
>time to respond--I think you're
>a great group of people.
> I came to this
>website red-faced, smoky-eared and believing
>that stickering was your mainstay
>tactic. I'm leaving considerably
>calmer and reassured that that's
>not the case at all.
>
>
>I leave educated.
>
>Thanks.
>
>--Art



  

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